Curse

Big_Iron · Jan 02, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I have an E/Me that uses Echo very effectively and she's still in high demand on farming runs. I've had many successful runs in FoW, the UW and in MS doing IDS farming. I've completed the game with 3 chars...a Warrior, a Necro and my Fire Ele. Yeah, my Warrior can stand there and get hit all day, but when it comes to dishing out damage, my Ele kicks her butt. Other than armor, I'd have to say she's the most powerful of the 3. If I could get her some better protection, I'd solo with her in a heartbeat and don't hesitate to do so in the lower level areas. And, hey, with a good Monk at my back I have done two man teams where I tank, dishing out massive damage and the Monk just keeps me alive.

Remember the Defend the Wall mission where you're supposed to rush back and tell them the Charr are coming? Just for fun, I soloed it at level 20 just to see how I'd do. I stood my ground and wiped out the entire Charr army...alone..no henchies...no help from anyone. Game over

. You guys have to remember, Eles have more weapons than Firestorm (which I never use since it was nerfed) and Meteor Shower (which I do use and is still a powerful weapon). Rodgort's Invocation is a very, very effective weapon. I can cause HIGH damage to a group with that alone. That's my favorite first strike weapon because of the initial damage it causes and often times even kills several foes on the first strike...at the lower levels, such as Charr.

Sir Skullcrasher · Jan 02, 2006, 10:25 PM // 22:25

I have to agree with everyone that AoE nerfed isn't the end of the world. People need to start using different skills or tactics to take down mobs instead of the good old fashion (firestorm, and echo metors showers). I still can take down large group of enemies with my level 11 elementlist. Althoght i'm wanted to get a necro and see how fun it is to play as MM or SS. Althought AoE was nerfed because of abuse and to combat solo farming... SS isn't that far away from being a AoE spell. Who knows, maybe one day A-Net get bunch of complains about SS necros and decide to nerf it one day. That my friend would be end of the world!

On note of why using elementlist? Should i continue with my ele or delete her and start a necro again?

Yogi's Pain · Jan 03, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

I'll take my ele against your ranger ANYDAY in pve. Unless you're running a multiple trapper team, you can't compare to my dmg output. Congrats on your barrage with favorable, but I have yet to see you come close to the dmg potential of a good fire ele.

Just to be fair and unbiased, my last two fissure groups have been in what seemed organized Guild groups. The first ran with 3 rangers, the second with 2 rangers and both times I was the only Ele. Both teams didn't complete the first quest. Granted this had as much to do with the horrible players as it did the damage output, or lack there of. Both groups I had to recast shower in the first mob which is a big deal since I don't use echo.

Viruzzz · Jan 03, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet

If I could get her some better protection, I'd solo with her in a heartbeat

i just gave you an uber tank in the post above yours...
you won't believe how well it works

Big_Iron · Jan 03, 2006, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viruzzz

i just gave you an uber tank in the post above yours...
you won't believe how well it works

That sounds pretty dang sweet. I'm going to have to try that build.

PrinceKheldar · Jan 03, 2006, 06:25 AM // 06:25

With the AoE "nerf", I can't say that it has really affected gameplay all that much. I just wish the darn Mage henchies would stop casting firestorm

.

I have always played a death MM necro since I began playing Guild Wars when it first came out... Finding groups was often quite difficult, and I found the underappreciation for necros discouraging, but it was kinda cool to be one of the few out there.

This new rush of SS and MM necros is good to show the versatility of the class, but now it is still hard for me to find a party because there are 5,000 other brandly new MM necros following the trend out there ^^.

I had an ele that I finished the game with, but got rid of her before this "nerf", just because I enjoyed my necro and monk so much more, but that is just my playstyle, and I respect those who can play the elementalist class well. I honestly don't think that SS necros beat out an ele in all situations, it just depends on the player really. SS necros have always been powerful, and ele's will always be great AoE damage dealers... I usually just grab whoever is available when making a party =D.

Kai Nui · Jan 03, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Elementalist is ruined. Without AoE, they're just crap. I still farm with the build, I just tweak it slightly. Got rid of Balthazar's Aura, put in an Arcane Echo and use Shield of Judgement twice. Uh oh, you failed at getting rid of solo faming, and succeded in screwing Elementalists. Thank you.

coolsti · Jan 03, 2006, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogi's Pain

You ever play a nuker in random arenas? You'll find that half the players still have no clue what to do if you drop a meteor shower on them.

You can still do more damage with fire than any of the other three in pve and most spells with aoe. Air may not be worthless, but its not the best choice by a long shot. You only play that if you want to go away from the rest of the crowd, not because you think its the most effective.

Earth is a different story. A LOT of things you can do as an earth ele that are very benificial to your party. But this is like smiting for monks, not the first thing you think of when you think of the profession but yet something they can do very well.

Do I ever play in random arenas? No, I tried PvP and I don't like it, and that might give a clue about what kind of GW player I am.

I agree that you can do more damage still as a fire nuker, particularly as an echo fire nuker E/Me. I witnessed this last night in an SF farming party with some friends.

However, how one decides to play an Elementalist really depends on what that person wants out of GW. I play GW for fun, to enjoy using the various skills of the various classes. I stick to PVE. I don't play GW hours on end for farming. And I find fire elementalist nuking extremely boring! I find it boring when I am doing it, and I find it boring when there is another in the party doing it. Just like I find it boring when there is a super minion master in the group. Yes, the kills are much much easier with a nuking fire elementalist. And that may be good if my goal is to farm as much money as possible per hour of game play. But that isn't my goal, and I find it much more fun and much more challenging when the party elementalists are playing air, or earth, or even water for that matter with all those nice slowing spells.

Unfortunately a lot of GW players are not of the same opinion, and it is not so nice to play as a non-nuking elementalist when everyone else in the party expects that you are a nuker.

In effect what I am saying is, yes, the fire nuker is a more powerful and deadly elementalist, but so what? Its boring!!!

Vicky13 · Jan 03, 2006, 08:14 AM // 08:14

I agree with Coolsti, i am the same, i don't like PvP/GvG either, and i am not intrested in how to get the most damage.
But unfortunatly there are not many people like that..most of em want the highest damage possible...

And i saw a couple of people saying that ele's don't get invited later in the game
Well i don't know where you are playing, but where ever i go ele's are asked.

I got an ele myself..but its not a char that i like very much
Me..more Warrior fan

2_fingers · Jan 03, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yogi's Pain

Originally Posted by Yogi's Pain
You ever play a nuker in random arenas? You'll find that half the players still have no clue what to do if you drop a meteor shower on them.

Yes. But they usually learn about MS quite fast after dropping a few on their heads.

Read thru most of the posts - here's my 2 cents. Anet's 'nerf' if anything only allowed other classes to be included into groups. Good thing? Not really. The problem is that now everyone has the mindset that a ranger needs to be interupt. A mesmer has to be anti-caster. A Necro has to be a battery(probably the most demeaning term ever used. If you cant manage ur own energy why should i manage it for u?), ss/ mm. The biggest problem with GW community is that they CANT THINK OUT OF THE BOX as they cant mentally process a different means to play a specific class.

So what if there's a nerf? Nerfs happen in all games - changes are made to characters with over powered skills etc. Booo Hooo Anet screwed my fire ele so now i cant rain destruction with a single spell/click. If you whine about how anet or some other company nerfed a skillset which did not take much brain activity to make or use then u simply display the complete lack of ability to think. I've counted 2 posts that had builds in them - not quite neccessary but they prove a point - its not the class that defines the character, but the player that uses it.

I've played ALL the classes and the hardest to get into a pug would be ranger mes or necro. Now with the new update, u can get into groups if u adhere to what the groups want. If you think u got a new build or a build that works better form your OWN group or get ur guildies to come down. (BTW you should be interacting with ur guildies anyhow)

Can an ele dish out more dmg than a necro/me/ranger? People here have so far been only talkin about SS/MM which is very limiting. I havent seen a single post on things like Lingering Curse/ FoC desecreate enchantments etc. Would i be able to dish more dmg than an ele? Depends. At times i can because my spells cast quicker than say an echo + ms and the 2nd ms.

But does it really matter? The thing that matters is whether u can stop whining and actually come out with a build that *can* make use of the 'nerfs' and perhaps abuse them instead?

M3lk0r · Jan 03, 2006, 11:02 AM // 11:02

In the beginning, my ele was hanging around in pre searing while I was playing my ranger and Warr. Then I heard about the AoE nerf and actually STARTED playing my ele, and its been great fun. I just ascended him yesterday and I think I've changed my build every single time I've been in an outpost. With its high energy storage the Ele is really flexible.

As my first char was a ranger I was used to being highly adaptive and working "behind the scenes". I didnt care much for big numbers, which is what the ele seemed to be all about at that time.

At the moment I'm using a Earth/Illusion build based around the armor ignoring effects of Obs. Flame and Conjure Phan. Managing the exhaustion is a bit tricky, but I think I've got myself a steady rhythm which works. :-)

coolsti · Jan 03, 2006, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2_fingers

I've played ALL the classes and the hardest to get into a pug would be ranger mes or necro. Now with the new update, u can get into groups if u adhere to what the groups want. If you think u got a new build or a build that works better form your OWN group or get ur guildies to come down. (BTW you should be interacting with ur guildies anyhow)

Here here! Good reply, all of it, not the bit I quoted here. I play mostly ranger and mesmer and I play them with the build that I want, and I don't have any problems getting into parties. Not because I play with my guildies, as there is only one other person in my guild. But because I play mostly with the friends that I have acquired over the past few months. And my friends list is increasing all the time, I am adding the people I randomly meet who play in a team-spirited, fun manner.

But building up and maintaining a nicely sized friends list to form parties with does take a bit of effort: you need to play the game in a manner that gets other people to want to play with you. And that means playing fairly, being friendly, and contributing some humor and livelyness to the group. You won't get very far (at least not with us) if you complain and argue and call people noobs, or for that matter if you just are silent (and boring) all the time.

And its not the group composition that makes the team, its the way people play. We have had great fun and easy going in SF and FOW with teams that had only one or no warriors and no fire nukers.

Phades · Jan 03, 2006, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

That's funny man, I love it when people who don't play the class put their two cents in

Yeah Firestorm key my arse. Can any SERIOUS elementalist raise their hand at this? OMG it left my bar after Met Storm and never looked back.

Obviously you didn't get that far

Reading comprehension is important before you respond. He was saying that people were dumb to think that firestorm is a good skill. It has always sucked, but many people never realized it. Chaos storm is far more useful for a comparable skill, but post change it is difficult to employ effectivly in pve. Even so, it wasnt that useful overal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

But no they don't bring the payload nukes, sorry.

There is a huge difference between damage up front and damage per second. Against high hp and AL monsters, damage per second is far more important. In good groups, its not that uncommon to have the target die before the ele spell even finishes. This is probably why the aoe delivery was changed to still finish. This should be one of the biggest indications that some skill sets are out of place or have no real use when compared to other possibilities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

And again you seem to be one who can't see outside this 'nerf' or even the skills you start with in presear

Considering that he would be someone supporting this change in order to have the possibility for change in the skill sets to be more viable in pvp, i think you are the one who is clueless here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Oh by the way curse was hardly horrible - SS/MoP was solid until AoE backed MoP off too.

2 skills do not make a skill line good, nor does it reflect upon how many of the skills are very viable at low skill level and no not get much of a power increase at high skill levels. This is what he is talking about, in addition to considering them in more than just the pve setting. Many of them share some of the weaknessess that the elementalist lines have in terms of cost verus cast times and effect. I still wonder why blood has hexes, while curses do not have many one shot spells. It makes the titles of the skill lines misleading. Things like mark of subversion seem like they would belong better in the curse line, but whatever.

Also, depending on party composition, feast of corruption ranks a bit better than spiteful spirit in most situations. Especially when many of the hexes employed to amplify the damage serve a purpose outside of just amplifying the damage in most instances. Its part of the reason why people were able to run sucessful necromancer spike builds in tombs. Potentially over 170 armor ignoring damage that also heals is nothing to scoff at especially when its also AOE, doesnt cause exhaustion, is available every 20s and uses only 10e when cast. Many curses will last long enough for 1 recycle use of it as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

The former tho isn't bad on your monk for some damage and clear-up, the latter lead with deep freeze or something.

Oh good waste more time and energy on a skill like deep freeze, that the effect you are striving for can be accomplished easier in a number of different ways. Also, the malestorm->mindfreeze is typically only really useful in short term spike setups. It has very poor rapid re-use and stay power and only good against a single caster at a time. You are better off with something like blackout or mark of subversion for that kind of effect since typically its the monks you are trying to disrupt more than offensive casters anyway and most offensive casters are easy to disable with a ranger or mesmer.

Dr Wu · Jan 03, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by death fuzzy

i made an ele a while ago. got it to level 15, and quit. it was pointless

The majority of posts here are about advanced El builds/players...they talk in terms that only advanced players understand, and about skills that only lvl 20 can obtain (in the most part)...since the game has sold over million copies, there must be hundreds of thousands of players who do not know, or care to know, the intensely complicated structure of advanced char builds. The AoE nerf took away the main reason for the average player using an Elementalist, and replaced it with nothing.
My .02

Carinae · Jan 03, 2006, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

On note of why using elementlist? Should i continue with my ele or delete her and start a necro again?

Start a Necro! You get to raise undead servants, play with dead bodies, and cut yourself! Is there any question, really?

I need to print up some tee-shirts that say "Necros do it better!"

Inari · Jan 03, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Wu

The majority of posts here are about advanced El builds/players...they talk in terms that only advanced players understand, and about skills that only lvl 20 can obtain (in the most part)...since the game has sold over million copies, there must be hundreds of thousands of players who do not know, or care to know, the intensely complicated structure of advanced char builds. The AoE nerf took away the main reason for the average player using an Elementalist, and replaced it with nothing.
My .02

Its a game. Plain and simple.
I dont get why the really experienced players keep forgetting this...
I have an Ele. My first character. Guess what - She's FUN to play. Some ppl spend too much time on thinking why I should use this instead of that. You should use what you want because it smarter, true. But if you forget that its fun, than its not really a game, is it?

Eles do their job. Play them if its fun. Otherwise, don't, but saying "why play as Ele" is just pure crap. Im sorry, but it is.

Edit: Wasnt really intended at you Dr Wu, so dont take it personally ^^.

antialias02 · Jan 03, 2006, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Well, there's a difference, here. I'm pretty sure the entire "Why Play an Ele" debate wasn't intended at people who pick a class to play for fun. It seems to have been more of an attempt to spark a "Bring back the old ways" chant by someone who is upset at the nerf - and it failed.

If you're playing PvE and you're having a good time, then it doesn't matter what anybody else says - stick with your class and skill line. Period. But if you're one of those twinks who cares about doing as much damage as possible, as efficiently as possible (which, I admit, I can be every so often), then this debate is, at least on the surface, worth minor consideration.

However, an Ele is still more than viable for lots of reasons. Earth Spiking/Wards, Air Spiking, Water Slowing, and Fire Nuking which - yes - is still an option. I mean, really, the debate exists only in PvE anyway, right? Because no ANet nerf ever nerfed human players.

In PvP, a real human player who isn't a moron will at least try to run out of a Firestorm, Chaos Storm, a Balthazaar's Aura. All ANet did was give the PvE environment a little more common sense. I still see Fire Nukers all the time in PvP as viable classes. This leads me to believe that it's also still viable in PvE as well.

Regardless of what conclusion this thread comes to, I still plan on using my Fire Nuking build in both PvE and PvP - first and foremost because, yes, it IS actually fun. Secondly, because it is also actually effective. I think that should be more than enough argument for anyone.

The Acolyte · Jan 03, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

My two cents is that Ele's are not only fun, but still a very necessary component in most groups. I have no problem finding groups with my ele, and many times play a fire nuker for UW. It's all in managing agro, which unfortunatly most Ele's do not know how to do. That being said, try a meteor>>>rod's invocation>>>Fireball killshot combo for a lot of damage with minimum crazy agro (especially if you are good at the "nuke and run" tactic). Add in Mind Burn, which lately has been a favorite of min, to take down that first enemy, in conjunction with a meteor shower and rod's invocation and you're doing a LOT of damage to a many mobs quickly. The "trick" is to not drop an obscene amount of damage as quick as possible, but place well timed nukes in a way that the mobs aren't hit for direct damage more than once in 2-3 seconds. Very easy, but the problem, again, is the way Ele's are played.

Anyway, it is really dissapointing to see someone label a thread this way. Almost all of the better players realize the usefullness of the Ele primary class and use it, assuming they aren't trying to take part in a solo group or smaller farm group. I personally get bored with solo/small farm groups and really enjoy the 8 man UW run, and I know from my experience in ToW that many others do as well. So the Ele will continue to have a roll.

Those Ele's still bitching up a storm about the AoE patch, PLEASE learn to play. If you don't know what an agro circle is, or if you don't know how mobs are respond to your favorite nuke combo, you really need to learn. It'll be more enjoyable for you, more enjoyable for others to group with you, and will increase the overall value of the class.

PS - If you want to complain about a class that is under-appreciated, you should try playing an Me PvE. I have found some AMAZING skills that are WAY more efficient that an MM in SF; specifically the Me, SS, Prot, Heal, Tank combo. I'm not telling a soul, because it's actually nice to play a char that not everyone plays (>>snickers at recent necro population boom<<)

Big_Iron · Jan 03, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

I don't know guys. I have both a SS/MM Necro and a Echo Nuker (as well as a uber-Tank). Still, when it comes to utter destruction, my Ele still dishes out more damage...even Post-Nerf. I love my Necro. I love playing with her and she's been in huge demand lately. But if I want to cause massive damage, I'm bringing my Ele.

Keyote · Jan 03, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by antialias02

Well, there's a difference, here. I'm pretty sure the entire "Why Play an Ele" debate wasn't intended at people who pick a class to play for fun. It seems to have been more of an attempt to spark a "Bring back the old ways" chant by someone who is upset at the nerf - and it failed.

You know, we should be upset because the patch was a mess and they simply left it there.

Lets not forget that many AoE skills were designed to work the way the did before, and they've done nothing about the energy costs or skills like Searing Heat which only does it's job if the mobs stand in it for the duration.

Players can adapt, but thats missing the point.